Mzansi Meat Co: Brett Thompson

Mzansi is a word understood by all but its meaning cuts a little deeper.  It's that feeling we get when we visit home for the first time in a while, the smell of the braai that takes us back to our childhood or that spirit of unity we feel in our core.  Mzansi Meat Co. wants to bring that magic to life through delicious, homegrown meat.

Meat is synonymous with almost every culture here in Africa and year on year the demand increases.  That's where Mzansi Meat Co. was born-out of a relentless desire to change our food systems and the way we make meat.  Mzansi sees a future where healthy, accessible and affordable meat is grown from cells without harming animals or the environment

Transcript

00:01.72
lifuom10
Brett thank you thank you for for being here and and welcome to manage.

00:10.72
lifuom10
Yeah, let me I don't know where somebody is trying to call me now. Yeah, no, no, my phone is muted. Okay, so we starting all right? Brett thank you thank you for being here.

00:11.77
Brett Thompson
Who would you want to start again with those background noises I know ah I'm on Ah I know those things go.

00:29.78
lifuom10
And and welcome to mage.

00:34.42
Brett Thompson
Defo Thanks very much for having me I'm really really glad to be here and excited to ya tell a little bit about my enropin. Yourship journey.

00:40.50
lifuom10
Yeah, you know first of all congratulations congratulations on being Africa's first cultivated meat producer really? Ah I mean your technology is is is beautiful, admirable. Um. And altruistic. You know you are you are on the side of being kind to humanity being kind to nature and and congratulations for that and you know and I fast ahead of of um zazimi company and and their products I thought you know this guy must be some. You know, vetarianarian or biotechnologist or a scientist of some sort and when I found that your economist as like hold on what a diversion diversion think I did this guy is congratulations Bret.

01:25.94
Brett Thompson
Is this.

01:34.51
Brett Thompson
Yeah, thanks, Very much I mean it's it's it's it's a challenging obviously industry and it's exciting and for a number of reasons and um yeah, coming from a non-technical background.

01:46.68
lifuom10
Um.

01:48.62
Brett Thompson
Actually I actually dropped out of science in school. So we we can start there. But yeah, so no, it's it's it's been a nice journey up until now and um, it's a big challenge trying to to tackle. Ah the problem of how do you feed another billion people in Africa by.

02:05.57
lifuom10
Um.

02:06.98
Brett Thompson
Ah, the next ten twenty years and and hopefully just do it in a way that's ah better for the planet better for people and and and clearly better for animals.

02:13.57
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, you know Brett ah your your company and in and your idea and your product. How did this idea cut come about and and what is cultivated need.

02:28.66
Brett Thompson
I'll start off with the first wait I'll start off with the second question first um, cultivated meat or cell-based meat or some people still refer it to it as lab grown meat is the process of taking a few cells from a.

02:29.30
lifuom10
Okay.

02:39.78
lifuom10
Um, a.

02:46.54
Brett Thompson
Live animal. Um, in our case, we use cows and and we've done it with pigs and lamb. But we take a few cells from ah from a cow and the cow is is not harmed and then we perfectly replicate the conditions as best as possible right now of the cowl.

02:51.77
lifuom10
Um.

02:57.23
lifuom10
Um.

03:04.15
lifuom10
All right.

03:06.13
Brett Thompson
Outside of the car and all that means is that we then we take some cells we add it to a ah vessel that regulates Oxygen carbon dioxide and temperature. Um and introduce nutrients that those cells require to live and thrive.

03:16.52
lifuom10
Are.

03:25.60
Brett Thompson
And um, we then create the environment which stimulates growth and on scaffolding to create structure after about three or four weeks we then harvest all that muscle tissue and fat.

03:35.30
lifuom10
Ah, who.

03:41.46
Brett Thompson
And then we combine that with a bit of plant protein for for um, for a bit of structure in ah and a burger format and that's what we're doing at the moment. Um, and yeah, that's that's essentially the the high level process. It's a bit more complicated than that which I'm I'm sure we can. We can unpack later. So so.

03:49.82
lifuom10
Um, all right.

03:55.51
lifuom10
Um, yeah is.

04:01.40
Brett Thompson
So that's ah, that's that's in a nutshell that's what cultivated meters in terms of the idea look the idea goes back longer than than our company and and the last ten years or 20 years it goes back to actually? um well I think there's a couple of discussions on who said it first but Winston Churchill

04:16.95
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

04:20.10
Brett Thompson
1 of his books on the on on on the future and how he sees the next fifty years I think it is talks about the um, the fact that in the future we will only need to grow not the whole chicken but just the chicken breast because why waste all the resources to do all the rest which you don't eat the bones and all that type.

04:33.75
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:40.38
Brett Thompson
When you can just grow the chicken breast so he sort of was the first individual to kind of talk about it and then um it became popularized when the dutch really led this forward and then and roughly about 2013 so fifty sixty years later

04:55.44
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

04:58.59
Brett Thompson
Um, almost to the day when he was talking about it. Um a dutch professor by the name of mark post was the first individual to take us and commercialize it in ah first being a release to the public and in London with a burger patty that cost two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

05:14.89
lifuom10
Um, yeah Shu yeah.

05:16.34
Brett Thompson
1 patty cost two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and then and yeah, so it's a pricey patty. Um, and then from from from then onwards you had a number of companies. Um 3 or 4 in the beginning and now there's about twenty five thirty companies trying to bring cultivated meats to the the public.

05:35.74
lifuom10
You? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but how did it come to you to say. Okay, this is this is I mean as someone coming from your economist. How did it come to you to say Okay now this is this is ah the the path I'm taking um.

05:36.30
Brett Thompson
Us being and us being one of them.

05:50.60
lifuom10
Yeah, how how did that come about.

05:51.56
Brett Thompson
Um, young. Well I think it it goes back to quite early on for me I stopped eating meat in 12009 I think it is and um.

06:02.97
lifuom10
Um, and oh.

06:06.99
Brett Thompson
And I just became quite interested in the topic I mean I'm not a foodie um I never have been probably never will be I like food I like food but I'm not you know I don't want to go to Fancyer restaurants I like ah I like yeah I like just going down to burger joint and um.

06:09.52
lifuom10
And.

06:17.15
lifuom10
Ah, yeah.

06:22.53
Brett Thompson
And then stopped eating meats and and and a lot of people having discussions with me because in South Africa the context of us you know whether it's a Bri Shushi yama I mean almost any meal is kind of I think I've heard this quote to new fuor times. No meal is a meal without meat and so there's this.

06:27.32
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

06:36.90
lifuom10
Um, we are mid country. Yeah yeah.

06:39.36
Brett Thompson
Yeah, it's a meat country and it's I think it's cultural. It's aspirational for people that can't afford it. It's um, it's a showcase of wealth even if it's just you know your cows in the field is just a showcase of wealth and so I had a lot of conversations over the last years ah 155 years now

06:41.68
lifuom10
And.

06:55.89
Brett Thompson
Um, about this was this topic and just became really interested in it and um I wrote my economic paper thesis on um, a case for Vegetarianism or plant-based um protein from more of a more of a sort of looking at it. Ah at ah and an efficiency level. Um.

07:04.41
lifuom10
Are.

07:14.87
Brett Thompson
The the rates of the input to output of of plant protein versus meat protein and and and particularly the externalities I think economists love to just talk about externalities whether they're positive or negative and um meat as meat as possibly the.

07:25.26
lifuom10
Yeah.

07:32.53
Brett Thompson
It's one of the most negative externality foodst stuffs and it's not. It's not incorporated into the price. You know we don't pay the real cost of meat and now I would argue that the there's such a benefit from people eating meat personally and.

07:35.46
lifuom10
Um, and.

07:50.66
Brett Thompson
Culturally and within a social setting that I think that's where we offset that negative. Um that negative costs. So anyway so that that was my that was my background and I um you know I was in my early 20 s at the time and um i.

07:53.71
lifuom10
Here.

08:01.14
lifuom10
Yeah.

08:06.95
Brett Thompson
Ah, sent this off to a food company called Fries Family foods or fries vegetarian they Manufacture plum-based meats so meat which which is which is made from vegetable protein and um and they're offered me a job. They offered me a job and said do you want to come work for us.

08:09.36
lifuom10
Um, and.

08:16.11
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

08:25.33
Brett Thompson
And you can't be an economist because nobody needs economists. But um, but you can come do sales and marketing and that was it. There's a start of my that was the first thing I did out of varsity did sales and marketing and then focused on a lot of more the Pr and marketing side of things and did a lot of work.

08:28.55
lifuom10
Um, speaking.

08:41.36
lifuom10
Ah, her.

08:44.90
Brett Thompson
Work in the space and um in campaigning and and a lot of things around this topic and that brought me to durban first and I spent a long time at Durban and then after after spending time in durban I moved to Berlin and that's where I was working at a food system ngo.

08:53.46
lifuom10
Ah, her.

09:00.31
lifuom10
Are.

09:03.51
Brett Thompson
Ah, 1 or 2 of them for a couple of years and um, connected with a lot of really interesting people who ah from en tropans to people working in government and and the like and I met people that had I'd known about cultivated meat I'd known about its existence. But i.

09:14.64
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

09:22.10
Brett Thompson
Was somewhat of a skeptic to be honest I was more of a believer in the fact that we should be moving people moving animals off the supply chain through a plumpe source and then um, cultivated meat came about and I connected with and met people. Um, always say this I played ping-pong with him at at an incubator.

09:22.82
lifuom10
Page.

09:37.58
lifuom10
There? yeah.

09:41.11
Brett Thompson
Um, people these en troppeneeers and these scientists and it was just so exciting to just get um to understand this to try and understand this world of biotech and food tick and and spent some time in San Francisco came back to South Africa and said look let's start a company and I first started a nonprofit and I started another agency.

09:46.98
lifuom10
Yeah.

09:56.38
lifuom10
Yeah.

10:01.10
Brett Thompson
Ah, so I did a couple of entroponeial things and then this company in zanzi came about and I started with a guy from Joberg and then you know we? Ah yeah, we we decided to um, um, yeah, sorry so um, I'm just getting distracted quickly. But.

10:16.25
lifuom10
Yeah.

10:19.47
Brett Thompson
We we we started it with a um, ah you know? Okay I lost more times thought you might have to edit this one out. But um, yeah, we came back and then we started the company in March Twenty Twenty two weeks before lockdown and that was it.

10:26.85
lifuom10
Um, yeah, we will yeah.

10:30.80
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, and that's been that journeynny so so now back back to the to the to the product for for anyone who who might have consents or questions you know because it's a new It's an innovation for us here in in in South africa let alone Africa. The nutrients now that the cells are fed fed with in that you know channel or in the lab is it like crass so people understand it's not like hormones. It's not you know you feed it crass or yeah.

11:06.92
Brett Thompson
But that's a the it's ah it's It's a very interesting way to describe it. So um, we talk about it if it's grass because it is it's it's um, it's.

11:09.72
lifuom10
See as.

11:19.44
Brett Thompson
Basal media and and some proteins essentially so it's that's like the kind of core um core components. The first someone is trying to reach out to me can I just um, can we pause for 5 minutes okay okay I don't get will you pause and I'll be jumping back in a second. Okay, okay.

11:20.80
lifuom10
Um, a home.

11:27.52
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, do that do that? Yes, yes, yes, yes, gone gone.

11:38.42
Brett Thompson
Okay, cool, cool.

12:22.43
lifuom10
Me.

12:57.22
lifuom10
Um.

12:59.93
Brett Thompson
Sorry about that I was just a it was delivery of something for the lab. So anyway, so um, should I just kick on. But.

13:02.61
lifuom10
Ah, it's okay, all right? Yeah, do you still remember when we should I go on to the next one

13:14.39
Brett Thompson
Yeah, well I know I think it was so so in terms of the what we feed the cells. So um, so I think a good way of looking at it is describing it as grass and to some degree so we are just recreating what the car eats. Um.

13:14.97
lifuom10
Right? right? yes.

13:31.38
Brett Thompson
In a way that that's that they don't have to need anything else these cells. So um and and and what it and what it is is basically about forty fifty nutrients that we combine in 1 um package which is.

13:34.54
lifuom10
And.

13:43.34
lifuom10
Are.

13:49.37
Brett Thompson
If you look at grass and if you look at what's happening in our bodies in an animal's bodies. That's what we're trying to do So it's we It's a combination of um Amino acid fatty acids. It's ah, there's salts. There's glucose when we use when we grow when you're growing fats. It's it's.

13:51.85
lifuom10
After.

14:01.44
lifuom10
Phone in your.

14:07.91
Brett Thompson
There's an insulin component to it. Um, and there's a couple of components that are animal drive that we are currently trying to remove while we do our research and development. So it's um, you know if you if you it's It's very much what it's what the the grass the animal eats and and we're trying to recreate that in a way.

14:15.27
lifuom10
Yeah.

14:27.22
Brett Thompson
Um, which is without antibiotics which are without some of the other stuff that is maybe found in conventional animal agriculture because and it's because we can do it in a formal controlled environment. It's not you know there's not where you when you pack a lot of animals into a small space and um.

14:31.80
lifuom10
Yeah, sne.

14:45.40
Brett Thompson
Whether it's on transport or whether it's in we we see food-borne diseases all the time in South Africa quite recently and I think it was pig and something in the Eastern Cape and and we've seen what's happened with others here. Yeah so those so those are things that we can kind of control for and and and and ultimately use less.

14:46.88
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

14:55.37
lifuom10
Um, ah yeah, you know.

15:03.39
Brett Thompson
Um, of what is required in conventional animal agriculture when it comes to antibiotics.

15:05.33
lifuom10
Interesting you know, but speaking speaking of the your R and D that that you mentioned that that that would presumably be you know Capital intensive. You know the trials there there like socaers and and all that goes in it and and maintaining and of of the lab itself.

15:17.40
Brett Thompson
And.

15:25.30
lifuom10
You know how how have you handled this this challenges financially. Um.

15:25.30
Brett Thompson
So yeah.

15:33.13
Brett Thompson
It's it's a massive challenge. Um, South Africa's you know South Africa's got a very quite a advanced biomedical industry. We saw that obviously with.

15:42.79
lifuom10
Um.

15:45.85
Brett Thompson
With h iv and our testing there and and and then also with covid um, you know some of the real like leading technology in tech and and research what that was that came out of that and first to highlight new diseases or variance and and everything so you you know the the availability of this technology is here I think that's not.

15:46.17
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah.

16:00.13
lifuom10
Yeah.

16:04.94
Brett Thompson
That's not necessarily up for debates. The difference is that biomedical is far more expensive than if you're looking to produce food. So our challenge is trying to take technology that is kind of born in a lab and then apply it into a food space which is very different and and less um technology intensive or high so amount of.

16:08.25
lifuom10
Yeah.

16:24.14
lifuom10
Yeah.

16:24.16
Brett Thompson
Compared to biomedical but still expensive. So in the beginning. Um, you had 2 individuals that weren't scientists trying to find um, that's what that's how it started trying to find a lab I mean we just my former partner Jay quite literally phoned I think almost and emailed almost every lab in South Africa

16:35.68
lifuom10
In yeah, it.

16:43.29
Brett Thompson
Ah, maybe not that much., But so we were trying to and but it's very difficult to find the sweet spot as a startup because there isn't the availability. So. There's you know, wonderful facilities in the private sector with pharmaceuticals and vaccine folk and and you know these big companies like roche that have these massive. Um. Spaces. But they're not necessarily looking to go and give a couple of guys filling around the themselves from Car. Um some lab space as you can imagine enough you know, fair, fair enough. Um, and then on the flip side and also it's just very expensive so we found Lab facilities like as you as you mentioned it's just.

17:08.89
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah.

17:17.79
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah, oh.

17:20.98
Brett Thompson
Frightfully expensive to stop when anything's up. Um, you know you're looking millions of millions of rats to get something up and running and then we looked at the sort of university stage and we you know that's where we got a lot of our talents. So we said well maybe we could look there but then you're looking at a very different environment. There's a lot of how do you protect your ip.

17:31.44
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

17:39.92
lifuom10
Um I.

17:40.55
Brett Thompson
You know there's ah um, a question you know there's a question on bureaucracy you know universities have got a lot more paperwork that we had to do and when you're a startup you you just that is I think everybody who who probably listens to your show and and is in the similar space as time as your biggest time as your thing It's not money. It's time.

17:43.18
lifuom10
Is from.

17:56.40
lifuom10
You know? yeah.

17:59.62
Brett Thompson
And if there's anything that slows you down, you've got to drop it and so luckily with all those sort of 2 areas and and and the fact that we had we were bootstrapping. We had no money. Um was we we found we worked with ah ah and we're reached out to by a ah nonprofit called.

18:06.38
lifuom10
And.

18:17.80
lifuom10
Okay.

18:19.29
Brett Thompson
Biocity and biocity is part of the cape information technology initiative and they are longstanding 20 years um in in promoting fintech and Ed Techch and and um and a number of these types of technologies platform startups and have and they decided to.

18:21.78
lifuom10
And.

18:39.00
Brett Thompson
Um, get behind biotech and that's what this this nonprofit biocity is doing and it's built a lab here in Woodstock and Capeton um, and it allowed companies like us to kind of start and just jump in and and start experimenting with our of our team and that kind of really cut out a lot of the.

18:44.18
lifuom10
And.

18:51.90
lifuom10
Um, um, yes.

18:57.46
Brett Thompson
Initial Capital outlay. Having said that having said that it's still phenomenally expensive and to go into the next stages and it's with the fundraising that we've done since we were bootstrapping has enabled us to actually now go on and buy and develop South African customized.

19:15.96
lifuom10
Is.

19:17.11
Brett Thompson
Um, Technologies Um, the the key technology being a bioreactor which is um which is which is if you look at it at ah at a larger scale. It's it's ah it's a vat for beer. It's a veryrry vat but it's a little bit more fancy and so that.

19:30.65
lifuom10
Ah, her. Okay.

19:33.93
Brett Thompson
So that is the technology that we've gone and developed. Um you know with ah um, and and own. Um and and as our kind of key differentiated because we've done it at a price point which is a fraction of what um international counterpots would do so so so that is where react roughly about now. So we work out of ah um. Ah, lab with where the the main core technology is the ability to take cells from a few to to to trillions and then ultimately make um muscle tissue that has that same structure of of of meat.

20:06.20
lifuom10
Yeah, interesting. You know I read in in in one of the interviews you gave that you know when when when the idea first came to you, you ran it passed one of your know if as a friend but who who's an expert in field.

20:10.40
Brett Thompson
And and stakes.

20:25.58
lifuom10
Scientist who who who straight out told you you know Bret this would not work and and you know how how did you know to stick to your guns and and and enforce ahead if you if you had sought advice from from someone who's an expert and they just teared your idea apart. How did you know to carry on.

20:47.40
Brett Thompson
Yeah, um, ah you know I like telling that story because I um I think it's the first time I already felt like I was in a tropin year because um to have to have somebody to to pitch to pitch and you know pitch an idea to an investor they normally say thanks very much but not interested.

20:51.79
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah.

20:58.64
lifuom10
It if.

21:02.67
Brett Thompson
Or who we are so it's not. It's not very um, detailed feedback often. It's it's not but this this wasn't a friend. Um, it was a leading Bioedic Bio chemistry person in the country. One of them was she was from a top. Ya, she's from a top university and I won't say much more than that. Um, and it was ah it was.

21:02.92
lifuom10
Um, yeah, ah.

21:14.40
lifuom10
Um, okay, um.

21:22.61
Brett Thompson
Was a pretty much ah a takedown of the idea and saying like and we've heard this a lot of times like why do you guys doing this rather just make veggie burgers from investors from um, friends family and and ah and and obviously the scientific community because they you know they think why Just let let's eat meat or.

21:27.10
lifuom10
Um, get on.

21:38.65
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

21:41.93
Brett Thompson
Eat veggies and they don't really understand I mean obviously people don't understand the level of cruelty behind eating animals but they also don't understand that the level of culture connected to eating it. So so I think that's where the the Entropinia lives it lives in that area doesn't live in the like the real world somewhat. So um, you've got to kind of see what can be go beyond and um.

21:49.91
lifuom10
Cried. Oh.

22:00.87
Brett Thompson
I Think um, that' that that that takedown was it was important and we came out of it. We relook our strategy we welook at what the science was saying and then we brought on. We've brought on people and.

22:03.42
lifuom10
Oh.

22:15.81
Brett Thompson
Um, to be honest, how you keep going. It's difficult. It's ah, there's there's just constant. Um I think there's just constant need for people to say this is not the status quo. So don't do it and um and that's these all these sort of adages for for where you you you then know that then there's something there because.

22:23.39
lifuom10
And yeah.

22:35.42
Brett Thompson
Um, this if you're so attached to something and if you can disrupt it that's that's how how you I think you can create value. Um, and um and I think ultimately for me, it's just you've got to stick to the vision that you have and I have a vision which is you know've underpinned a lot of my work for the last fifteen years is

22:45.60
lifuom10
And only.

22:55.24
Brett Thompson
Yeah I I don't think that factory farming and the way that we see it now will exist in 50 in fifty years time and I think that will become a less controversial statement in in thirty years time but for right now it is because it is it is the status quo. But.

23:00.53
lifuom10
Ah.

23:12.45
Brett Thompson
If I'm right and I think that um, as as as we as we develop we will no longer need animals. We might still eat meat but we won't need animals and and and that's what keeps me driving is that belief that that is the ultimate goal if you think about the kind of individual conversations that you have and the pushback that you get.

23:22.25
lifuom10
Ah, yeah.

23:31.76
Brett Thompson
And which you will get as an entropic. Yeah, it is difficult but then you always go back to either your team to like you know, get your energy or to look at the vision and I think I try to do a bit of both.

23:39.77
lifuom10
Yeah I mean you know we hear the stories of of you know what happens if if you could just visit the slaughterhouse or this avatars you know, but it's it's a thing that we we tend a blind ear to or we just we just choose to look away and eat meat as long as I don't see it but it's a reality.

23:50.55
Brett Thompson
Um.

23:55.58
Brett Thompson
Is.

23:59.28
lifuom10
You know if if if you think about it. Um ah killing animals at scale and and to to be able to feed to feed us you know So I mean this this this technology this innovation really like I said before it's admirable.

24:04.67
Brett Thompson
Um, miss.

24:09.90
Brett Thompson
You.

24:17.29
lifuom10
And and we have people like yourself to thank you for that. Um, and and you know, ah recently you and your cofounder Tani Tasni you won the essay innovation about essay innovation summit award how how did that that that make you feel it somehow validate. That you're on the right track and and has that award helped help the the company going forward.

24:46.59
Brett Thompson
Yeah I think um to be recognized by your peers and um industry players. So I think there there is a validation that does you know need to start happening because.

24:55.65
lifuom10
Um, and then.

25:02.27
Brett Thompson
Ah, even if you've got this belief this stream this idea this product. It needs to be validated and ultimately needs to be approved by your customer and then initially as a startup you don't have the ability maybe like well in finic you do. But in Biotech you don't necessarily have the ability to showcase your your product to customer for quite a while so you do need to find other ways to shoot.

25:16.70
lifuom10
Yes.

25:21.71
Brett Thompson
Source validation. Um for your my current customer still is investors like we are trying to sell bits of our little company to other investors so that we can get bigger and then sell product directly to consumers and and in other businesses you know and that's how that's kind of how I look at it. Um, and this.

25:33.95
lifuom10
Then.

25:41.40
Brett Thompson
The the summit was you know it was great. It was ah was was quite large and and and and it's also interesting to note as that fintic fintick fintick that is if you look at technology in South Africa and in Africa if people talk about startups.

25:43.20
lifuom10
Yeah.

25:51.65
lifuom10
Yeah.

25:56.75
Brett Thompson
90 Ah, lets to say I 90% of the time maybe more they're talking about fintech which is important and getting financial inclusivity I understand is how we get people up and and up and running on this consonant. But when you're ah.

25:59.46
lifuom10
A her.

26:12.52
Brett Thompson
Outside of that spectrum. It is is challenging. It's a difficult place to be if you if you're not in that space and particularly biotech which requires that capital that you described in the beginning. So so in terms of that summit. It was good to get up on stage at ah at a food tech program and see that people are starting to recognize the importance of food and the fact that everybody eats them.

26:15.91
lifuom10
Um, yes, yes.

26:31.10
Brett Thompson
Going to have more miles to feed soon and and then to go out and win it sea. It was fantastic. A really good feeling. Um and and and you know the the journey still continues because the prize came with investment. So um, we So we now you know we that that investment component which is hopefully going to.

26:32.30
lifuom10
Um, it is.

26:40.25
lifuom10
I.

26:48.20
lifuom10
Yeah.

26:49.74
Brett Thompson
Um, come online pretty soon? Um, it just will enable us to accelerate some of our projects and programs and and what we're trying to do is get our company closer to being able to sell help to produce product at a pilot facility scale so that we leave the lab.

27:02.90
lifuom10
Yes. But yeah.

27:08.35
Brett Thompson
We need to leave the lab and actually start making food making meat and um I think you know if I look at that that prize and and and and obviously um, the recognition that we got from it it. It definitely got us on them. It was a talkable there was talkability. Um and people and and credibility that came with it and um, you know for any intertro. Yeah I'd die.

27:22.11
lifuom10
Um, um.

27:27.86
Brett Thompson
As begrudgingly as you it is to fill up fill out these competition forms and then stand up in front of a hundred people and get grilled by 4 like judges you got to do you just got to do it and yeah, it's but it's it's all part of this journey in the early stage to get you to be.

27:33.39
lifuom10
Yeah, love.

27:46.72
Brett Thompson
Self-sustaining and and and and revenue generating this. There's a whole lot of ways that you have to create value for your company.

27:49.10
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know you ellia you so you spoke of being in front of investors. You've you've worked that you've worked that Jenny I'm sure many times over how what is the advice you would give someone who is now raising. Funds at seat. Ah they are preparing their pitch decks. They're going to be in front of investors. What are some of the key points that they should should include in their in in their pitch and how should they carry themselves.

28:17.94
Brett Thompson
Um.

28:23.52
lifuom10
Yeah.

28:24.26
Brett Thompson
That's look this is um, there's a couple of ways to ah to answer this question. It's ah it's it's It's quite a difficult one I think um I think you know I can I'll try and start with some sort of more.

28:31.77
lifuom10
Um, I mean.

28:39.11
Brett Thompson
High level and thoughts out loud and then I think there are some specific ones that um also you know I can advise to sort of just say oh this is research on. There's research and there's a lot of information online to actually go and get these answers for you? um.

28:46.27
lifuom10
Oh yeah.

28:52.73
Brett Thompson
I'll talk you from a little bit of our experience and and and I think we and I'll probably talk more from a sort of preseed earlier stage investment from a South African context and and and again I'm I'm refering I'm I'm referring to my experience in ah in a biotech space which is is is different than other types of startups. Um.

29:02.11
lifuom10
Yes, yes.

29:11.25
Brett Thompson
Where you are able to build and and and with at at a quicker rate because you a couple of guys on a laptop that are servicing you know, getting improving delivery times on on on food or whatever it is so um or another dating app because we know we need another dating app. But anyway so.

29:16.46
lifuom10
Are are.

29:25.61
lifuom10
He.

29:29.60
Brett Thompson
Ah, from um, from our experience we you know we started my business partner at the time just put together a pitch deck. We asked way too much money on an idea and we just sent it out to you know the ah usual suspects in South Africa and we got quite a lot of.

29:37.90
lifuom10
And.

29:48.92
lifuom10
Okay.

29:48.96
Brett Thompson
Honest feedback to say yeah maybe just refine some of things. So so in the beginning I think you know if I look back what we should have done is go for a smaller check size in the beginning be able to get the right type of investors and on the journey I think it's more like it. It's it's a way they structure a journey. So um I think in South Africa we've had a lot of success with the angel investors that came on in the early stages. You know the first four. So yeah, 33 to 5 investors that came on. They gave small checks but they were pretty um.

30:08.56
lifuom10
Um.

30:15.21
lifuom10
Um, ah.

30:24.00
Brett Thompson
Pretty important so one was very well known in the space. He he's invested in a hundred companies. He does small checks but because he's got 80000 linkedin followers when he tweeted about a posted about us. Um, lots of people saw it and I think that was a crucial one. So we.

30:42.32
lifuom10
Um, and um.

30:42.75
Brett Thompson
So. The first person was somebody that got us just quick validation. Um, he didn't he didn't get really much involved. We had a call every couple of months um then the next kind of person we got was you know more silent partners just gave cash and then. Third or fourth I can't remember where it was was somebody who came and said it like I want to help you with your structure. So I think and then he was a former banker from investment banker r and b I think so what um what I would so so what I would suggest is someone is look at if you're looking at an angel that free Cd put together a kind of group.

31:04.64
lifuom10
Okay, oh.

31:17.80
Brett Thompson
Archetypes of people that you would like to get on your company early on to help you build a robust plan to go after um, a large check that's going to give you twenty four months of runway I think that in in that six months you want to really get ah like some type of ah Mvp traction um work with.

31:26.93
lifuom10
Um, and.

31:30.40
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

31:34.93
Brett Thompson
Work with advisors like that and then go out and execute and and then raise on a larger remark. Um, so I think that's more crucial that that would be the learning that I've had and then if you are in South Africa um it's difficult to engage with investment funds.

31:38.23
lifuom10
You know.

31:53.81
Brett Thompson
Um, because they are more excited and interested in post-revee and later stage investments. So you a lot of a lot of vcs will say they're looking at early stage. But really that you know they're really looking at growth stage. Um, and so.

31:56.59
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:11.76
Brett Thompson
I think there is more we I mean we've raised majority of our funding from Non-south african sources particularly at the latest age. Um, that's just something to consider for for people. Um, and and the 1 mistake that we made and and we still continue to make and I'm I'm trying to rectify this is that we look.

32:15.97
lifuom10
Okay, no, um.

32:25.29
lifuom10
Yeah.

32:30.27
Brett Thompson
This later stage we still are looking at people that are within the industry within biomedical who are interested in future of food oruldence sustainability and um I think that's incorrect I think you need to go. You need to have the people that are interested in you in your space but know that they are talking to 10 other people like you.

32:36.72
lifuom10
Ah, okay.

32:46.32
lifuom10
Is.

32:49.44
Brett Thompson
Who are interested in impact or food or in my case, food or sustainability and stuff whereas um what you actually need to do is find the people that are interested in making a return on the investment and could be from completely outside of the box from what you might expect? um and then you know that that that advice is something that I.

33:00.27
lifuom10
Exactly yeah.

33:09.17
Brett Thompson
I've heard and I want to act on but I haven't been able to do it too successfully? Um, and then yeah and then I think finally what goes into an V I mean pitch you know, like tell your story I mean your story is important if a farmerer's story is important the beginning of the journey. It's.

33:09.64
lifuom10
You know.

33:24.37
Brett Thompson
People are like even to where we are off to turn off years as a company like I get the feedback a lot from investors and potential investors that they are not investing in the company as much as they're investing in me and my co-founder. Um, and because they because they were the ones that are you know the buck stops with us.

33:30.28
lifuom10
Are ah.

33:41.33
lifuom10
And.

33:42.51
Brett Thompson
We've got to make sure everything keeps going. You know, um, and other people are not as committed to your vision as you are and and they will you know, get it and for them. It's a job. So so so I think yes, it's important to have a great talented team but you know rarely the the investors are investing in that core founding team. So tell your story tell it succinctly.

33:57.86
lifuom10
Yeah.

34:01.20
Brett Thompson
And and connected to the dots exactly how you think it. It's going to help you in the future and how this makes you defensible. Um, you know you've really got to frame your problem correctly, it's got to be like if you're looking at your pitch deck or your your pitch. It's got to be within the first you know 30 seconds after you've introduced yourself. Is is is the problem and and and then ah and then immediately what your company is providing is a solution and why it's unique and why it's differentiated um people are looking they want to they want to match and back an idea that's that's not going to get beaten. Obviously I mean people on on.

34:26.30
lifuom10
Um, how much.

34:35.74
Brett Thompson
You know if you so I think if you start off I always get annoyed when people say like I'm we're the uber of selling cultures. It's like what you're not helping you know, but you don't cheapen yourself I think like really you want to showcase your solution showcase. Why it's different. Um, you know what? you know we we we really just double and double underline what sets apart.

34:38.53
lifuom10
Yeah here.

34:45.60
lifuom10
Her.

34:55.31
Brett Thompson
Um, in very clear lines to why it's commercial like why you can commercialize It don't just say it's a great this. You know this concept that you you want to back? You got a really clear clearly link the the commercialization. Um I would also.

35:00.57
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

35:11.53
Brett Thompson
You know my my my learnings is that we made ourselves too south african to be honest I think I think today's capital flows internationally and I think you you need to you need to position yourselves as being a international player. Not a um.

35:12.50
lifuom10
A home.

35:18.48
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah.

35:27.43
lifuom10
Um, yeah, ah.

35:31.20
Brett Thompson
Not ah not I mean humans of everybody remote works these days So like um, that's I mean our name is and our name is and znzi meets so we we we made a mistake there on the name. But yeah, but that would that's been a learning and and and again like showcase why that's the case like also.

35:34.42
lifuom10
Um, yes, yeah, your local? Yeah um.

35:48.90
Brett Thompson
You know if you if you're a south african company. There's arbitrage you know you've got the ability to have a lot lower costs here and um I how you frame that in your in your pitch and um yeah I mean I think again, it's it's a clear. It's a clear one once 1 page you're on a business model. Um, that can.

35:54.47
lifuom10
Oh.

36:07.95
Brett Thompson
You know, just get people's if they're reading the pitch deck. They need to kind of get it in a couple of seconds. Um and then and then they can hopefully ask you more questions when they do a followup in person or in in a voice call. So yeah I mean those would be my main things. It's it's pretty standard stuff I think you can find a lot of this on the websites like YCombinator um

36:10.40
lifuom10
Yes. Um, yeah, yeah, yes.

36:26.78
Brett Thompson
You know if I think it's I think the early stage I think it's important to get into like incubation programs and and places where you can um, know for Mike for mikes for my experience. Um I did ah I did a incubator program for a nonprofit project. Um in London.

36:30.50
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah.

36:45.82
lifuom10
Yeah.

36:47.12
Brett Thompson
It was remote but it was out of bleed for 2 3 months they actually I got ah I got a bit of a stipend it enabled me to sort of just focus on those project and so I think um these incubation programs that often do give you these stipends and stuff so that you're as a young and tropin you and or just the new introp in you should I say.

37:02.97
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah.

37:04.73
Brett Thompson
Um, can just spend time focusing on your projects because you're not going to be able to quit. You're not going to be able to quit your day job anytime soon and if you get an opportunity to to um, take a bit of a ah a back seat on your job and and focus on something like this you should You should take it.

37:15.70
lifuom10
Her but Brett I have 2 last questions just hold on a bit I think there's someone who keeps knocking let me just send them away quickly hug.

37:27.20
Brett Thompson
Um, is think up.

37:42.12
lifuom10
Um.

37:46.84
lifuom10
Um.

37:59.82
lifuom10
Um, okay back betterer. Yeah, so so um, you know I have to ask this I really have to do I read somewhere I think on your ah company profile or on your website you have a professional taster a chef.

38:02.33
Brett Thompson
All good. Come.

38:19.14
lifuom10
Um, how does how do they say it tastes like is it that the texture is it fibras. It tastes like beef I'm so curious.

38:30.30
Brett Thompson
Yeah, um I think now I'm glad I'm glad you asked this question because it's it's you know it's the most important one is what does it taste like what is that? What is the culture and um.

38:35.27
lifuom10
If.

38:42.21
Brett Thompson
You know we she was the third person that came on board actually for the company absi panwa. Um, she she's a restaurant too and um, and and and she works and with chefs. She's not actually a chef herself but she's definitely got. She's also the daughter of a cattle farmer. So.

38:54.29
lifuom10
Um, ah okay.

38:59.88
Brett Thompson
Um, we wanted to a small scale farmer from East Cape and and we wanted to like in the beginning showcase like like proof of concept and creibility and and we thought no better way to bring somebody on who knows food and meat. So ah, we you know we developed the you know the develop.

39:04.95
lifuom10
Yeah.

39:18.84
Brett Thompson
Lot of this with um with her and ah and then I think the next major breakthrough was that we developed a partnership with ah Mon um, and daily spices they've got a joint friendship. So mon is a french flavorhouse company. Um and from their massive massive company.

39:29.41
lifuom10
Um.

39:37.15
Brett Thompson
Ah, hundred and fifty years old I think and um and in deadly spices is here in cape town and they're also throughout through I think also throughout Africa and um and we worked with them because we wanted to be the experts in growing the muscle tissue and the fat and that side of the business and then the food science is that's something that we wanted to you know, get.

39:38.91
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:51.17
lifuom10
Um, um, yes.

39:57.10
Brett Thompson
Other people who knew it and absi was there when we developed the first paties with with the team and all that and um I mean the feedback we did a tasting it's today is the eighteenth of November so we did a tasting last week friday as well. That was the most recent one and you know the.

40:07.79
lifuom10
Hello.

40:15.48
Brett Thompson
The experts the mon experts or have come and developed and said that this is you know, like for like it's got the taste. It's got the profile. It's got the aroma or marmi all that kind of things that there's not meters. Not just what it smells like but it's like there's much. There's I mean taste Alic there's so much more. It's the smile. It's the experience. It's the smoke.

40:23.24
lifuom10
Um, and.

40:33.30
lifuom10
Um, ah yeah, yeah.

40:35.14
Brett Thompson
You know when you when you cook when you cook a burger. There's that smoke profile that comes through and so all that wasetted with them and and and so we've been very excited um with that partnership and um, you know the experts are saying it and then when we got consumers to do it which we've done and not a lot of people have tried our burgers because we can only make such a. Smaller amounts in the beginning and um I mean um, she couldn't believe it I think she was blown away by and the fact that it's exactly like meat the same texture the same bike the same mouth feel all that stuff she actually got ah we did it in front of a live audience so she got her husband on stage tried and then she said no my kid.

41:02.59
lifuom10
Um, yeah, okay.

41:11.99
Brett Thompson
Ah, kid had to have some and um, you know so this is all all part of the r and d process for us. But it's it's very important for us to get this learning and and so and it verifies and we know we know we know taste good and that's the and that's the crucial thing and and um and and the exciting component is this the this is version 1

41:14.91
lifuom10
Is.

41:29.00
lifuom10
Home. Yeah yeah.

41:30.69
Brett Thompson
You know we we're going to do you know cars cars have been doing this for 10000 years and and we're just getting and we're and we're just getting started which is really exciting of what we're going to achieve in the next next six months so the next six years

41:42.98
lifuom10
Yes, ah you know these are technologies we see and hear are from developed countries like the Us Now it's here and and for me personally I go to say I'm I'm um I'm really excited and and we be looking. We'll be looking for.

41:58.10
Brett Thompson
Now.

42:00.83
lifuom10
How how much will a petty. Yeah um, you know, ah presumably how much will it be costing what what would be the cost ifable to to a butcher to buy it or see what I get yeah.

42:11.70
Brett Thompson
So yeah, so obviously um, so currently the price um looks our our current focus is may need to go through business to business. Um in the beginning so you're not goingnna be able to I mean we're not looking at. We're not going to be looking at retail as as a first route to market for now. Um.

42:18.77
lifuom10
Um, and.

42:26.30
lifuom10
Ride and um.

42:27.95
Brett Thompson
We'll do we'll do pop-up restaurants and everything because we want south africans to try it. So hopefully that will be next year so keep to your listeners and if you are in the capton region. Um, just check us up and follow us on Linkedin and Twitter and you'll you'll be the first to know and you can sign up for a newslet.

42:37.49
lifuom10
Um, yes, yeah, okay.

42:44.68
Brett Thompson
Can sign up for our newsletter on um, on our website. Um and then in terms of the costing. So you know the first burger. However, many years ago ten years ago was to from that company and the Dutch Company was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars the prices decreased obviously rapidly from then.

42:45.30
lifuom10
Um, yeah.

42:57.48
lifuom10
Yes, okay.

43:04.79
Brett Thompson
Um, the patties that we made in the beginning were expensive thousands of rams um, but the price has constantly halved over the last six months to to a year and we're aiming to get it on plate. Um, so that's to the customer.

43:11.40
lifuom10
Her.

43:21.98
Brett Thompson
Um, on plate for like 150 to 300 round which is still expensive. Um, but it's but it's it's the beginning price. Our ultimate goal and and is not price parity. We want to be a better source of protein at a better price that is our ultimate goal.

43:22.27
lifuom10
Okay, that's.

43:34.95
lifuom10
Yeah, if.

43:39.73
Brett Thompson
Um, and we're confident. We're confident that we will achieve that in the next couple of years

43:43.28
lifuom10
Yeah, okay, interesting. Ah Brett in closing what is yeah um your favorite book that has inspired you in your entrepreneur Jenny.

43:56.42
lifuom10
Yeah.

43:58.44
Brett Thompson
So it's a good question I am I've been asked this a few times and um, there's a number of books that have inspired me and and I think there's there's a number of things that I'm trying to achieve with my I guess my life and I think.

44:09.49
lifuom10
The.

44:15.20
Brett Thompson
As much as I want to have impact and and and and be involved in um, reducing you know, conventional agriculture and and harm towards animals I think I've also been underpinned quite a lot by the desire to have independence as an individual um and um.

44:27.90
lifuom10
A home.

44:33.50
Brett Thompson
And independence for me is obviously financial. But there's a lot of other things that kind of you know the ability to to move about and navigate this world and in in my own way. Um, and I think that's why I quit the job ten or five years ago and have done this crazy.

44:49.90
lifuom10
If it.

44:51.41
Brett Thompson
This crazy journey so far. Um, and so so of the back of that. It's a book that I read when I was in my final year at university picked it up off the shelf. Her name's Ian Rand um she's ah she's written books like Fountainhead and um and.

44:58.21
lifuom10
You.

45:08.20
lifuom10
And.

45:10.38
Brett Thompson
Atler shrugged those those those didn't appeal to me. Um, but the the book on Capitalism the unknown ideal just spoke to a lot of things of of Independence and and and and pushed a lot of my thoughts. Um and and challenged me and and I would say that's probably an inspired me to go about this journey Of. I'm trying to be an individual that that has um I won't say freedom. But but but independence.

45:35.13
lifuom10
Ah, wow Brett. Thank you thank you for sharing a story with us. Ah, thank you for for being here. Yeah, it has really been eye openingen learned something I learned so much. Ah, today I'm sure my listeners will find.

45:41.47
Brett Thompson
Um, you're happy happy.

45:50.75
lifuom10
That's interesting as well. Thank you so much.

45:53.29
Brett Thompson
What a pleasure defo. Thanks very much and thanks for teaching me some susutu if I get it right? Yeah, fantastic to a.

45:58.10
lifuom10
Um, oh yes, oh yeah, you did out of this out of best going forward Bret. Thank you.