Papis Camara is a British, French and Senegalese citizen who is currently living between England and France. He is an executive with over 15 years of professional experience. He first had 10 years of international experiences in Sales, Marketing and Management within L'Oréal, the global leader in Beauty, he has been leading digital start-ups in the UK and France for nearly 6 years. since April 2022, he has been managing the Digital Strategy and Growth Marketing for a leading hair and beauty distributor in the UK.
Papis is the Founder of Papis4Business, a consulting company specializing in Digital, Mentoring, Strategy and Marketing. He is also a lecturer in Marketing and Strategy at Thelma Business School based in Dakar, which is the first management school in sub-Saharan Africa specializing in the Luxury, Fashion, Tourism and Hotel-Restaurant sectors.
Papis Camara is a British, French and Senegalese citizen who is currently living between England and France. He is an executive with over 15 years of professional experience. He first had 10 years of international experiences in Sales, Marketing and Management within L'Oréal, the global leader in Beauty, he has been leading digital start-ups in the UK and France for nearly 6 years. since April 2022, he has been managing the Digital Strategy and Growth Marketing for a leading hair and beauty distributor in the UK.
Papis is the Founder of Papis4Business, a consulting company specializing in Digital, Mentoring, Strategy and Marketing. He is also a lecturer in Marketing and Strategy at Thelma Business School based in Dakar, which is the first management school in sub-Saharan Africa specializing in the Luxury, Fashion, Tourism and Hotel-Restaurant sectors.
00:00.10
lifuom10
You are your sound is perfect. Can you hear me.
00:01.20
Papis
Okay, cool, great. Yes I can't hear you perfectly.
00:11.60
lifuom10
Okay, hello Papis. Ah welcome to to the marriage podcast and and thank you for being here.
00:15.45
Papis
Hello Lifuo Thanks for having me.
00:24.37
lifuom10
You are welcome and you know, ah pappy a few years back you you I came across a post of a story of yourself that you shed on Linkedin and I read that post I think maybe someone I know shared it. And um, when I read that story about you. Ah, it was a story of resilience. It was very uplifting for me and hopefully for others as well. It was a story of determination and and tenacity against against all odds. Um. Can you share that briefly share that story with us here about about when you you were yes when when you you were left your home in in Senegal as as a twelve year old boy.
01:01.85
Papis
Um, yes sure. Um.
01:12.71
Papis
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure Li for again. Thanks for having me. Um, so it's a post um ah met on Linkedin in 2016 and when I was making the post I didn't. Expect the post to go viral. But 1 thing we'll show was when I was making the post a spark from my heart like I always do so basically in that post. Um I said I left to my home country Senegal which is where I'm from at the age of 12 and at the age of 12 I went to a army school in ivoy cost. Was my personal choice. He was following um a test an exam that I successfully passed and to give you an example, an an example is at the end of the primary school that exam is taken by roughly two thousand people and only 60 people are selected every year and then that that allows you to give to that to go to that school which is um is army school but as well you learn things from college and high school and it prayer prayer use for the best in life course in terms of um things you learn you learn from the best students in that country.
02:05.26
lifuom10
Um, so.
02:21.50
Papis
But not only that you also learn from the army. So it's all about discipline ah about making your own bed. Ah before leaving the dormitory about waking up at some time but making lots of sports for sports is not only good for your physics is also good for your mind and all the discipline that that comes within within army.
02:24.40
lifuom10
Um, the her.
02:37.94
lifuom10
The.
02:41.28
Papis
So And also it's a lot of brother wood because when I was in that school. The good thing is there is that we don't care where you come From. We don't care about your sho status. It's the army and armies like when people go to war we all Brothers. So We all win together. We all. Loose together and it's never but he did this or he did that it so but we did that and or we didn't do that So that brother would path always be in me which later on served me in my life because when I'm in a company and people talk about team Work. It makes me laugh because in Army you can only do team work.
03:01.20
lifuom10
Um.
03:18.60
Papis
Ah, done that you cannot win a war. So yeah I was in in in that school. It was amazing school for me Amazing I school of life. Ah, um, have some friends there that now in the army some hours went to a civil life like myself.
03:21.97
lifuom10
Um, ah.
03:33.30
Papis
But because I was there for 6 years and it it was an ivo cost so I was barely seeing my family. So basically I was seeing my family only two months a year. So imagine at the age of 12 seeing only your parents or your sisters ah two months a year so obviously it was very challenging.
03:43.80
lifuom10
Um.
03:49.20
Papis
Um, so that was part of the of the story I shared and I said it was hard to rarely see my family and then after that and if um after had my ah a level I came back to Senegal for about 2 years where I studied low and english and then after I moved to France so I want to move to France.
03:51.63
lifuom10
Um.
03:58.24
lifuom10
Are we.
04:04.67
lifuom10
Um.
04:07.89
Papis
I was 21 and I joined a business school. But then when I arrived in France it was my very first time in Europe so I came you know live for with dreams in my head and in my eyes you know stands everywhere you know that dream you have ah where when.
04:09.52
lifuom10
Okay.
04:19.47
lifuom10
Then.
04:27.40
Papis
You want to move upward you want to move somewhere the dreams I still have by the way today. But then my my my my dream got to slap on their face straightaway because within the first 4 6 weeks I face some discrimination some racism and I'm not going to name to list them all. But.
04:28.62
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
04:45.98
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
04:46.63
Papis
1 of them was to find a flat because I needed to to find a flat and I give you 2 example. So I pulled that estate agent ah speak to that agent and then and then he asked me what's your name. So I said patis camara so when I was speaking to him. Ah.
04:56.49
lifuom10
Ah.
05:04.66
lifuom10
Um.
05:05.72
Papis
He couldn't necessarily tell where I was from so he was fine of that. But as soon as I said my name then there was like and silent from him I say are you still they say? Yeah yeah and he said see you at whatever 3 Pm whatever in in that ah in that location and then. When I went there. He didn't turn up then I made the link with the cold and when I gave him my name and and then and another one was again a estate agent ah Booker meeting with him same my name everything he still didn't make the link that I from Africa and once he saw me up.
05:26.62
lifuom10
Are ah oh.
05:41.90
lifuom10
Um.
05:43.20
Papis
Tell from his face was like a bit like ah phase out and then when he was showing me the flat. The visit was really quick like real quick and I said okay I'll let you know later I never heard of from him so you know those 2 2 examples were like wow and.
05:47.71
lifuom10
Who.
06:02.21
Papis
Like I mean France and what people used to tell me I'm actually ah face facing it and then when I was on my business call I remember that there was ah an entrepreneur because this podcast about entrepreneur right? So an entrepreneur who came to our business school.
06:15.36
lifuom10
Ah.
06:20.13
lifuom10
Um, play.
06:21.20
Papis
To explain us the kind of job he was doing So as as a student we could see ourself in his tools like in the terms of job. We could be doing after being graduated so in that ah um, conference or lecture. Whatever ask him the question because.
06:24.10
lifuom10
In.
06:30.70
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
06:39.18
Papis
And that business school I was the only one from Africa um, it was a town in France and then ah I used to get on. Well if all my classmates most of them french and some of them are friends for life then I asked that entrepreneur ah french guy I said to him since I've been in France.
06:42.60
lifuom10
The home.
06:55.21
lifuom10
Earth.
06:58.72
Papis
Ah, ah, told that I was told that oh I heard that you know people like me. Ah you know, get way more way less chances to get a job after they graduated than my white peers here I was very direct. I say is that the case will I have the same chances and then he wouldn't reply then ah said Sir Ah, joining me to repeat my question and then there was a big silence in the whole auditorium Course. All my friends were like oh my gosh. What are you seeing Pa like I was was freaking out and then.
07:27.73
lifuom10
Um, and ahead are ahead ahead are.
07:32.24
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah.
07:35.90
Papis
I Remember what he answered to me which I will always remember he said to me I heard well your question I just wanted to make sure I give it the right answer and he said to me the right answer is that unfortunately you'll have to do more than your classmates to get a job.
07:44.42
lifuom10
Okay.
07:53.35
Papis
And I was in France for less than six months I was like wow I was like wow I'm not getting a disconunt in my business school I'm paying as much as my my my white peers I'm working as much out of them or sometimestime or more than them. But I am told if I get the degree.
08:00.50
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:12.69
Papis
After this business could like my peers I'll have to work way more than them to get a job I'm like Wow but you know what Li for that sentence actually was positive for me because like I use that sentence as something really unfair which is the case but life is unfair if you want.
08:14.68
lifuom10
Um, yes to get a job huh.
08:32.11
Papis
Things to be fair, you can create your ownward. You know there are unfair things that happen everywhere in the world. But then I use that as a motivation as a determination in everything I do I work more than the other and that's why I'm wear am today and we discuss it later everywhere I've been I work more.
08:35.95
lifuom10
True true. Yes.
08:47.60
lifuom10
Um.
08:51.92
Papis
And my others and as well. Ah, so what another thing I was ah told in that story before we move to the next question is that you know ifwa you have dreams and you tell about your dreams your goals.
08:53.78
lifuom10
Um.
09:01.69
lifuom10
The head.
09:05.76
Papis
Even as a child you tell you tell your parents and guess what your own parents your own friends will talk you. You say you? you want to be a doctor ifwa. Oh all, right? You want to be an entrepreneur you want to be a dentist you want to be a pilot you can dream you can't even count until 10 You said you want to be a me whatever physician whatever so I said in.
09:06.74
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
09:17.77
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
09:25.43
Papis
That post that I ah put my ears on mute to face those dream killers and I had to come with visions goals hard work commitment passion and self-belief then I end up the per se.
09:27.42
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
09:43.47
lifuom10
Her.
09:43.68
Papis
Always believe in yourself because the first person to believe in you should be yourself. Let me repeat that for your audience with listening class. Always believe always believe in yourself because the first person to believe in you.
09:54.10
lifuom10
Hello Please please? Yes, yes.
10:01.95
Papis
Should be yourself live for self-belief is so underrated we live in the world where people doubt us all the time we live in the world where you put Tv on it's negative. You go on social media is negative. People are negative. So it's so key to believe in your own self.
10:07.90
lifuom10
Um, just.
10:12.35
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
10:17.52
lifuom10
So.
10:21.30
Papis
That's the first thing you have to do because we will put you down anyway. So why would you put down yourself. That's why that self beliefef is really key if you want to succeed in life so that was the nature of my post and you write the post one vial but then after only 2 three weeks ah there were 1000000 view
10:26.88
lifuom10
Um, and that.
10:35.14
lifuom10
Um, ah.
10:39.95
Papis
And that was just three weeks um that I had some people reaching out for interview including 1 market nba magazine from the us and then some people reach out just by me say saying thank you I can relate or thank you lift him up and from that day I realized that.
10:44.23
lifuom10
Um, ah.
10:47.28
lifuom10
Are.
10:57.36
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
10:59.65
Papis
Um I had a story to tell and then I cannot just stay without sharing stories without telling positive things and without lifting up people and that's why I've been doing it 4 years now
11:11.50
lifuom10
Um, yeah, on the.
11:15.25
lifuom10
yeah yeah I can tell you I got something out of that and and thank you thank you for that and and of course you worked harder you went harder than your peers and and because after your business school now you went on to work for for Laurria there in France.
11:33.81
Papis
Um, yes, yes, yes indeed. Yes.
11:34.96
lifuom10
Am I right? Okay, and then you you went excellently with in other countries as well. But then you later later left ah that ah big. Ah Beauty business. Ah, what? Why did you leave.
11:52.33
Papis
Yeah, that that's a very good question that people have been asking me for nearly six years now so yeah you're right after my business school um in ah I joined larei in 2007 ah
12:05.66
Papis
June Two thousand and seven so 4 years after coming in France and that was my first full-time job straight after the school. So obviously I was blessed by this opportunity and to join this amazing company because Lara is the number one beauty company worldwide and they have over.
12:08.77
lifuom10
Ah, ah.
12:13.26
lifuom10
Okay.
12:22.73
Papis
30 brands. Well-known brands obviously loyal Paris Gami Malin Gaia other brands like kills if Solo Harbuti George Amani Butti Longcom la roshpue vihi red ken karaas mizani dark and lovely social kason. So.
12:32.99
lifuom10
And.
12:41.36
Papis
Ah, they have so many brands sold in different distribution channels so head raing is one of them then what we call the consumer division or the drugstore or the supermarket then you have what we call the high street or the Li Channel Or Department Stores or the morse because I know yeah.
12:49.94
lifuom10
Um, okay.
12:58.90
Papis
Lot of mos in South Africa where you are right now. Um, and what we call as well. The pharmacy or our power pharmacy like ah visual wash poses. So I was lucky enough I worked within 10 years for 10 years so I work within free out of the 4 channels where larea is present.
13:04.77
lifuom10
Um, oh yeah.
13:16.15
Papis
So I started as an account manager for the hair salon division where I had a account bed of 12050 salons to deal with in Leon in France then I was working as the marketing product manager for redkin which is a a salon brand in France then.
13:20.63
lifuom10
Um, ahead.
13:35.92
Papis
I was marketing manager for different brands for the production division then got promoted um in 2010 to be in charge of social castle on dark and lovely which is the number one haircare brand for african hair. So I was in charge of the us Africa Uk and France.
13:47.95
lifuom10
Her.
13:54.38
Papis
Ah, for the whole productional category hence I used to actually go to South Africa or the us or other countries to work with the educators. The sales team the market team to make sure we have the right product catalog for the retailers for the hair salons but as well the right education tools. Some of the products can be so technical to use including hair coloration. So we used to develop like tools that are user, friendly, easy to understand and so on and so on um, and then after that experience ah because we did so well and we had 20% growth year and year.
14:13.25
lifuom10
Ah.
14:29.70
lifuom10
Um.
14:32.15
Papis
For nearly three years I was prod to move to the yeah uk to be charge of langcom so that's when ah I moved to the Uk that's nearly ten years now ah and lancom being the number 1 luxury primem for Lara I just so people know and Uk being the number one.
14:46.15
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
14:50.23
lifuom10
Yes.
14:50.40
Papis
Ah, market for travel retail so airport business. So I was in charge of longcom for many airports in the yeah uk ah for nearly four years or have sales teamed of about 25 people including training people have people in the airports in Glasgow.
14:59.77
lifuom10
Um.
15:06.66
lifuom10
Are.
15:08.34
Papis
Ah, Liverpool Belfast Manchester Newcastle leads you name it? um and that went real well because the brand under my leadership got brand of your o award in front of brands like Chanel Galey and mag benefit first time the brand got that oad.
15:15.50
lifuom10
Um.
15:27.55
Papis
And never got it after me so far or that showed that How um my team performed their work really hard and I that that showed the relationship we had with the retailer and and the airport and then after that if I was promoted to be in charge of the biggest.
15:31.71
lifuom10
Um, yeah, ah is.
15:45.31
Papis
Customer of lowerpro in the uk so hairdressers in selfie these hards have anycos which are the biggest apartment store or hairdresser dealing with the wild family. The Beil family the london fashion week. Um.
15:52.30
lifuom10
Um, ah.
16:00.77
Papis
And again went really well. So overall 10 years at l'ureal I love did enjoyed work with some of the most talented people I've ever met in my life was given lot of opportunities as you you you can tell by now. Um, and I was really passionate about the group and I still am but you know lihoa.
16:10.85
lifuom10
Um, yeah, um.
16:20.76
Papis
In your career sometimes you have to make so decision and you have to make strategic decision after 10 years at laraale I had to option I will do another 1020 years which was the natural journey for me and everyone was expecting that I was actually offered different job or.
16:22.91
lifuom10
O.
16:29.92
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
16:38.99
Papis
Ah, challenge myself. Ah go out of my comfort zone and do something that will be the future. So six years ago in 2016 I decided to leave larea because I was likely for hour work within different self channel so hairrecing hair salons.
16:43.28
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
16:52.15
lifuom10
Kiss.
16:59.46
Papis
Ah, supermarket high street de Atmin store travel retail but there was one channel I was missing and that Channel was the most booming one it was online ecommerce. So I said to myself Le for.
17:03.86
lifuom10
Yeah.
17:13.67
Papis
Royale is well known for marketing for hair color for branding but not ecommerce. It's not their Dna. So I said to myself if I want to learn ecommerce I want to learn with people. Ah what is expert in ecommerce. So that's how I joined the hood group.
17:15.35
lifuom10
Um, ah oh.
17:31.80
Papis
Which is the fastest growing online retailer in whole Europe for health and beauty and wellness that they have brands like look fantastic selling over 200 brands ah beauty brands the like of obvious lareal esther loader Mark key so many brands out there cat has as viishy lot of brands.
17:46.63
lifuom10
Um.
17:51.27
Papis
Um, and then I joined that company which is actually based in Manchester where I live because they were in charge of the managing director for Glossybox now glossy box live for is online beauty brand ah or digital matching brand where people go on that website. They subscribe.
17:52.50
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
17:58.60
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
18:09.51
lifuom10
Um.
18:09.77
Papis
And every month they get a box in that box. They will be skin care perfume or makeup. Um, and then if you every month. Basically you get that product so I was managing that business a team of roughly 20 people ah business with a strong community and then after that.
18:30.29
Papis
Ah I joined a new joint venture called uparfe so youpamo was an idea from 2 investor 1 base in Dubai one base in the yeah uk and the idea was under my leadership to create a brand new perfume brand high end perfume sold.
18:30.95
lifuom10
That my.
18:42.73
lifuom10
Okay.
18:49.44
Papis
Purely online. So the whole concept really Flua is how to sell a person online without smelling it because it was all about the community feel the storytelling the narrative so all about putting the perfumer at the center of that brand.
18:57.56
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
19:07.15
Papis
Because the beauty of you Pama was that we partnered with world class perfumers and when I say wordclasss perfumers. It's not a marketing or Pr thing. It's because those same perfumemers have designed perfume for Joe Malone for penhaigons.
19:20.55
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah.
19:26.60
Papis
Ah, for some of the most well-known permes in the world. So we we partner with them and every two months will release free new sense. So the idea is again, you go on that website exclusively. You can buy the box on a one-off or you can subscribe to get box every two months and if you like some of those sample pathmeme.
19:30.97
lifuom10
Um, ah yeah.
19:40.33
lifuom10
O. Um.
19:45.19
Papis
You can order a hundred ml on that website exquisly. You can personalize your but I was thinking about you. This is for you or this is for lifoa and then get it delivered straight to your door and that brand one was nominated best in ni fragrance launched in the Uk last year
19:59.37
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
20:05.14
Papis
Ah, the brand is live. You can take the website you puffer. Ah, if your audience yeah audience just want to go check it and then after that and that's when I decided then to create my Jita agency so I created in may 2020
20:07.32
lifuom10
Wow.
20:14.31
lifuom10
Um, ah.
20:24.90
Papis
So nearly three years now where we advise companies whether it's beauty wellness lifestyle consumer brands. We advise them mainly in the digital strategy or helping them build top nuts website with what I mean by that is user, friendly and.
20:26.45
lifuom10
Yes, yes.
20:43.46
Papis
Easy to navigate less pages to check out amazing content and so on and so on um, but on top of that in my audience you were also mentor manly entrepreneurs actually meant a lot of entrepreneurs in Africa we discussed us later.
20:51.30
lifuom10
Um.
21:01.50
Papis
And who also help companies work on their marketing or on their branding that comes as well as my loreal background and alongside that for over a year now alongside that for over a year now I've been leading the digital strategy and the growth marketing for one of the.
21:02.51
lifuom10
Um, ah, um, yes.
21:10.16
lifuom10
Is.
21:20.54
Papis
Ah, hand beauty retailer in the Uk. So it's a leading distributor in the Uk mainly for b two b customers. So their customers are hair salons beautyans barber ah salon spa and so on and I'm in charge of leading the whole digital strategy. Ah for the distributor. On top of that our so lecture at the business school in Africa which is the first one specialized in the luxury and fashion in in the subharan africa so it's based in Senego it's called Telma business school. do it virtually I do it virtually I'm very passionate about it.
21:53.72
lifuom10
Um, okay, okay, yeah.
21:58.16
Papis
Ah, and um, so that's my story. My story and my journey so far.
22:05.42
lifuom10
Her and and and now I feel like a good perfume you know and so when yeah when you now went to start now your agency this this purpose for business you you you.
22:07.99
Papis
Yeah, there you go.
22:19.71
lifuom10
I Started the company with your own money or you you got some investors.
22:22.51
Papis
Yeah, good question. Um I managed to do it on my own. Um, so thanks for business was self-funded Thanks God Um, but again is is because I say to people you have to be financially educated Ah you cannot rely on one source of income. So.
22:32.65
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
22:39.57
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
22:40.40
Papis
I been working for 15 years but I made as well without going into details. Obviously here some sort investment in my private life that allow me to have different stream of income and that also allows me to finance my own company. Yeah so I needed need.
22:49.63
lifuom10
Again.
22:57.43
Papis
Didn't need any investor when I was launching my own company. Thanks. But for that.
23:04.90
lifuom10
Ah, lovely. So so so now of course with with with um, your experience and and you funding your your business now when starting you know in those first few months did you meet any challenges. You know that that you are like okay now I'm on my own.
23:10.78
Papis
Are more.
23:16.26
Papis
Yeah.
23:21.50
lifuom10
I No longer have the luxury of being in big corporate and and these are now the challenges I face.
23:25.25
Papis
Yeah, that's a good question actually for yeah lot lot of challenges you know entrepreneur ah is a very lonely journey people don't realize so actually since I've been doing public school business I have even more respect.
23:37.27
lifuom10
Um.
23:41.30
Papis
For than I had before because it's a learned journey. Um, when you have a job in general fulltime job is a permanent job. You can have gar of income in general I mean every month you know what you expect or not ah if your own company is different.
23:43.95
lifuom10
And.
23:55.45
lifuom10
O.
24:00.85
Papis
Ah, sometimes you can have less some you can have more so it doesn't only depend on you. That's so obviously does itself is is a challenge The fact that iss your own company but don't realize but you tend to work more. Ah, because obviously he need to pay the bills so you need to get things happen and another challenge which I didn't expect Le for is that is very I think human beings sometimes can be funny. It's like since I've had my own adnc I have so many people who come to me for free advice.
24:23.98
lifuom10
Ah.
24:32.13
lifuom10
Um.
24:35.59
Papis
I mean it's a consulting company people wouldn't go to the biggest consulting companies like Deloitte ba mackenzie ask free advice but the the same people will come to you and I have an example of people coming from big comp is you'd be surprised.
24:38.43
lifuom10
Um, and.
24:44.81
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:53.30
Papis
And they expect things for free. Yeah yeah, yeah, trust me, it's a bit sad to be fair because I I was expecting the right like people will actually support you but a people as challenge you will expect free B as well I had.
24:55.99
lifuom10
Um, is it? Okay, yeah.
25:03.21
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
25:08.68
Papis
People? Yeah, but I learned from the beginning I don't do it anymore you work for them and they don't pay you so I've learned from that and now before doing any work you have to pay 50% in advance because I have unfortunately expenses where I deliver a work and people don't pay. Ah so yeah, obviously some some challenges.
25:18.99
lifuom10
Um, the the.
25:27.69
lifuom10
Um.
25:28.12
Papis
But overall the the learning ah was really worth it because ah again, you work with different companies different people within different ah industries. Ah you learn more in terms of resilience. Ah, que like I a start to be to be to be entrepreneur. Um, and then it just make you as a more complete professional which at the end of the day will make you a more and ah better person. That's my belief.
25:45.59
lifuom10
To yeah yeah.
26:02.29
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, actually it it takes me into into this next. Ah question I'm curious about because most entrepreneurs which is a fact I think will tell you that like you just said entrepreneurship is a Lonely Journeynny It is hard. Some will even go as far as it is a cutth throat Business. You know to be an entrepreneur because you have to rely on yourself and the people that work for you and with you you know they depend they depend on on your success for them to be to be successful as well. But when I was going through. You know, researching your company I could I could tell that your your business is is people-cented I could tell that at the heart of your company or your business is empathy and in compassion now my question is how do you manage to reach that level of um. Of of our awareness is it some work that you did or you're just naturally like that.
26:58.99
Papis
That's that's a good question. Um I think humbly I will say both I've always been a people person. Ah, but also say you become better manager by leading by managing and you beat you become a better manager a better leader.
27:08.96
lifuom10
Um.
27:15.78
Papis
Through work and life experience only work experience will not be enough to make you a better leader and and only life experimentent wouldn't be enough. You need to combine both and I give you an example when I was pro promoted to move to the Uk within my first two weeks I remember I was staying in in in ah in hotel.
27:24.77
lifuom10
Um, and I.
27:29.00
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
27:35.10
Papis
Ah, when I first moved to to the Uk for nearly two two months um and then I remember you know ah I iron my shirt getting ready to go to meetings from the otter room right? And then I got to call at 8 am 8 in the morning from somebody in my team because remember I was in charge of.
27:41.00
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah.
27:50.94
lifuom10
Um, yeah, okay.
27:54.80
Papis
Ah, lancon within the travel retail so I had a team across the whole uk within different cities much as the buring club newcast and so on so I got somebody from my team who rung me 8 in the morning I'm like wow that's that's unusual, um, pick out the phone and she's crying.
28:06.50
lifuom10
Um.
28:12.37
lifuom10
Um, okay oh.
28:13.15
Papis
And bear in mine I was in the job for just two months two so two weeks actually and she was crying I'm like what's going on. She said my cow got shot. He said my cousin got shot and that's so cool I got 8 in the morning within two weeks in the job so she was crying earlier was my cousin got shot.
28:20.51
lifuom10
Um, ah oh okay.
28:32.50
Papis
Um, and it's actually sub storys so all over the news. Ah, but anyway I'm not go into detail that story but the six months following that call you know, um I had to make sure I was there for that person. So obviously she was she took time off larial was supporting her as well. There was mental health support.
28:39.27
lifuom10
Um.
28:44.60
lifuom10
Um, um, yeah.
28:50.91
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
28:50.97
Papis
Ah, she could take time off and still get paid. But on top of that I was there for her so she will call me. She'll mess up any time she needed show as was always there to bring that genuinepathy genuine compassion because it's a horrible thing but at the same time I want you to make sure she will be also ready to come back to work. You know because unfortunately life goes on. So the reason why I'm giving you. This example is that you don't learn things like for business school. You can go to Harvard. You never learn that that's why I say you become a better leader for work and life experience so by going through those experience by.
29:14.20
lifuom10
Um.
29:21.90
lifuom10
Um, yeah, yeah.
29:28.88
Papis
Dealing with those experts not running for them but dealing with them. You become a better person in terms of compassion and so on so that's that compassion I try as much as I can to bring to my own agency when I speak to to to leaders to managers to entrepreneurs.
29:37.51
lifuom10
Um.
29:42.66
lifuom10
Can.
29:45.93
Papis
Ah, try to understand them while before understanding their own business and then try to be as emerfect as I can but that's also part of my nature.
29:52.81
lifuom10
Um, yeah, you know, ah purpose I know you you are you are passionate about the economic growth and and and economic development of of Africa. So you know across Africa they are entrepreneurs and and and looking for growth. So what is some of the advice you can give them if they are looking into looking for collaborations with with foreign markets or with other international businesses. Whether. Ah, some of the advices you can. You can give them before before looking for entry into into this markets. How? how should they approach these markets.
30:33.24
Papis
Yeah, I'm glad you asked afterctor that question about Africa because um, everywhere we knee at the end of this podcast. Ah, but the the advice I give ah to those entrepreneurs in Africa is the same example I will give to anyone by the way.
30:41.45
lifuom10
Um, it's we are.
30:50.17
Papis
Where you are in Africa and yeah europe wherever ah, first of all, you want to make sure you have the right skillset like in regardless the industry you will be walking so you want to make sure.
30:56.61
lifuom10
Are the um.
31:00.22
lifuom10
A home.
31:07.87
Papis
Have the right skill set if you want to work in fashion in Beauty in wellness and it in tech. Whatever make sure you learn about it if you want to work in marketing in digital in communication you need skillset if you don't have it good news. You can go learn and nowadays. That's what Nifa there is no eque is not to learn.
31:13.52
lifuom10
Um, boom.
31:23.65
lifuom10
Um, all right? Um, true.
31:27.70
Papis
Because everything is online and lot of things are actually free right? So you make sure you go learn you learn about the industry you learn about the market. You don't know about the competition and so on and so on that also brings you credibility so that that that's 1 thing another thing I will say is that you make sure that. Whatever you choose, you're passionate about it because the sad reality lifa of professional experiments or carrier is that you will spend more time with your team colleagues suppliers managers investor than your own family and I can relate relate to that.
31:53.70
lifuom10
Um, a.
32:05.47
lifuom10
And and.
32:06.00
Papis
I can relate to that right? So you want to make sure you are passionate about what you do? What you do will never be perfect. Never there is nothing such a perfect thing. However, if you are passionate about it that makes things easier so make sure you are passionate about what you choose if you you haven't found that yet. Keep keep looking. Right? So that that's that's that's ah, really key. Um, and then as well another thing obviously like I said before you need to have a self-belief because it will be hard. It will be challenging. But if you don't believe in yourself A no one will believe in you to jump on a project with you B You won't go far.
32:28.64
lifuom10
So.
32:45.23
Papis
So you need to have that self-belief and then ah come with what I said earlier on that purs you need obviously a 3 year plan you need some goals right? You need a clear vision and that resilileency because you're going to fail regard is how good you are. You'll felt that's the nature of life right? You'll fail. Ah, and then.
32:48.40
lifuom10
Um, who.
32:54.43
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
33:02.82
lifuom10
A.
33:05.60
Papis
Last thing is that if you have that idea to become an entrepreneur in Africa Ah the good thing is africa allows you to think I think way more out of box than many continent There are so many things to do actually believe that Africa is the. Continent entrepreneurs ah more than 50% of the population is under thirty years old so obviously in terms of potential for growth is huge that population will be so digitallyavy because the generation right? So um, lot of.
33:32.59
lifuom10
Um.
33:41.66
Papis
Signs are good for you to be entrepreneur there because of that just jump dot over fee just jump. Worst case, you can do is to learn yeah because we never fail. We learned that's what Nelson Mandela said once? yeah.
33:52.94
lifuom10
Um, just jump.
33:59.79
Papis
And you are from South Africa so you can will it. You don't it's not a failure. It's a learning if it doesn't work. You have learned something so just jump don't overthink.
34:00.73
lifuom10
Um, yes, um, ah puppies. Thank you in Close. What is your favorite book that you can share with us that has helped you in your journey of life or journey of entrepreneurship.
34:20.46
Papis
Oh wow, that's that's actually ah a very good good question. Um, there is a book that many book obviouslyiously ah 2 2 there 2 books of kind of which kind of change my life. There is ah.
34:29.44
lifuom10
Um. Um, yeah.
34:37.99
Papis
Think it's called things. Let's called things like a millionaire or millionaire mindset something like that um things like a million a millionaire is from T Harvey is like from t harvey school millionaire mindset something something like that. Um, and that.
34:46.80
lifuom10
Um, ah ah, ah.
34:54.11
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
34:57.21
Papis
That book basically changed my life because it's all about financial education I Told you about financial education before it's all about financial education and give you concrete example and for instance, you know people might go to to a coffee place I don't want to name a brand here.
35:05.20
lifuom10
A.
35:15.38
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
35:16.72
Papis
A coffee place every day buying coffee. Ah for £5 cupuccino whatever so yeah you know I'm going that way. So yeah, so the exact title of the book is actually think to.
35:22.00
lifuom10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:33.16
Papis
Getries to get rich secrets of the millionaire mind just is my T Dot R hey eka secrets of the millionaire mind if people want to check that. So anyway. Ah so imagine you, you go to a coffee place capuchal of ah four Po Let's say four pan or four Euro ah capuch. You know every day.
35:38.93
lifuom10
Um, a.
35:42.61
lifuom10
Are.
35:51.16
Papis
For five days in a week four times five in a week like it's like £20 ah in a week if you do it in a month it's £80 then if you do it £80 in the year obviously I'm being a bit extra here but 8 times a year is nine nine hundred and sixty nearly thousand pounds just on coffee now imagine.
36:00.82
lifuom10
Um, like.
36:06.90
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
36:10.68
Papis
4 a pound of a day you're spending if you go ah to to a supermarket to buy ah coffee in the session bagesh bag sat or even by capsules that £4 might be actually at least one month supply of coffee for you. So so that's those decisions.
36:23.65
lifuom10
And yeah. Yes, Base Nick and.
36:30.14
Papis
You make you on a daily basis. You don't realize but you actually exactly so that book changed my life because since I've read that book that made me financially aware that made made me financially educated and that helped me to invest in things that matter so many people invest in things that don't matter. You might go out spend money.
36:46.83
lifuom10
And.
36:50.30
Papis
on clothing on night out on whatever. Okay I'm not saying to do it are low fashion I still do it but ah in terms of priority I spend money on things that matter right? Ah investment matters if you want to invest in a property is really key if you want to invest in yourself people will go out by.
36:59.36
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
37:02.20
lifuom10
Him.
37:09.32
Papis
Ah, the latest iphone. However, but they never buy a book talk about books. They never get a book. They never go to a conference right? They never jump on a podcast. The biggest investment you can make is the investment yourself so that book literally has changed my my my my my mindset.
37:11.67
lifuom10
Um, yeah, oh oh.
37:28.17
Papis
And my life as well and there was another book called the power of positive thinking because it's by Noman Vincent build the power of positive thinking that book has changed. My life is so powerful because like I said people are so negative.
37:34.30
lifuom10
A home.
37:41.11
lifuom10
Of positive thinking. Ah.
37:47.87
Papis
So it help you to to think positive and there is an example we all do sometimes if are you are thinking in your head about something negative right? and and then 2 minutes later you are like why am I thinking about something that negative and so in that book I give you some tips like whenever you think of something negative in your mind and you keep going there.
37:48.79
lifuom10
And.
37:58.33
lifuom10
Yes.
38:04.86
lifuom10
Um, yeah.
38:07.60
Papis
Switch that foot to positive foot. Imagine last time you were having an amazing meal or you were at a spa or you you were not at the amazing holiday destination that positive memory straightway. So it's kind of exercising your mind because the mind is powerfully for people when they go to a fuel station.
38:13.45
lifuom10
Um.
38:21.51
lifuom10
Um.
38:26.99
Papis
They check double triple times before to realize if this is ah Gsel or essence right? They they check is's the right field even though it's written they double check. But they will never check. They will never check what is going into their mind. They let the whole garbage coming into their mind. the gross the gossips the bad news.
38:27.80
lifuom10
Um, and.
38:34.66
lifuom10
Um, yeah, let me.
38:44.41
lifuom10
Um, ah move.
38:46.76
Papis
All those things your mind is so key your mind is so key so thinking positive being positive. It comes with many things the the way you talk if if you talk you love vulgar language you swear it's a positive mindset. It's a positivey mindset the way you dress up. It says a lot.
39:01.92
lifuom10
Are.
39:05.37
Papis
The way you work says a lot the way you shake hands say a lot the way you look at people says a lot doesn't make sense if you if you come to a meeting room. Why are I going in fraud you're going at the back that says a lot if at the end of the conference of a meeting everyone asking question. You're not asking questions that says a lot.
39:21.20
lifuom10
Um.
39:23.88
Papis
So that's why that book changed my mind hence change my life. So ah, yes yeah I was just saying obviously there are many books but if there are 2 books I would recommend is the power of positive thinking.
39:33.32
lifuom10
Um, perfect. Yes, yes yes, go on go finish.
39:42.90
Papis
The power of positive thinking by Noman ven and peel and the other one will be secrets of the millionaire mind secrets of the millionaire mind think wish to get rich secrets of the millionaire mine.
39:42.67
lifuom10
O. Who.
39:54.42
lifuom10
Because of them I'm definitely going to check this one. The power. Yeah um, purpose. Thank you, Thank you very much for being here. Thank you for your insights. Those have been a really eyeopening. And in in my language So su to we say Killliboha means. Thank you? Yeah yeah, it means Thank you.
40:13.66
Papis
A what does it mean jelaboha ah okay, Lisa if I was a pleasure. Um I hope your um audience or at least some your audience call will that through my journey It's always a place of. Pleasure for me to share because as you say sharing miscaring I also in return would say thank you and my language in whatoff we say jero jo which is a ah which say thank you in Senegal. So thanks for that and thanks as well for being in touch with me. Um, you.
40:35.92
lifuom10
Yes.
40:49.63
Papis
Ah, knew about me from that post uprightly on Linkedin five six years ago and then ah you also show determination in getting in touch and making this happen. So thanks for that and I know your podcast ah is a brand new podcast. Ah hopefully you'll have many.
40:53.88
lifuom10
Yes.
41:07.18
Papis
Entrepreneurs but as well many leaders or many students or many just many people coming to share their their experience because when you share your experience with someone. Not only you can make a difference in their person but ah by sharing you also will learn.
41:15.29
lifuom10
Yes.
41:22.61
Papis
Ah, so it's a mutual learning. So I wish you all the best for this and then may God make things easy for your podcast.
41:26.56
lifuom10
Um, and.
41:31.44
lifuom10
Thank you.